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Long time no see (in a web sense) - Mini split, LiFePO4, Solar...

MT
Mike Teets
Sat, Apr 2, 2022 1:05 AM

I was just reminded that it has been 11 years since I did the YouTube video series on upholstery of my Palm Beach and it has been 4 years since we
used our coach much.  All my batteries are toast.  The Onan would need a new muffler/pipe and some maintenance. All this and my electrical systems are
still circa 1977 design.

Seems like a good reason to dig into a big project. Don't try to talk me out of it!

Here's the plan:

  1. Remove Onan the Giant.  After combining two into one and getting it a relatively dependable unit, it just never seemed to fit the places we went.
    State and federal parks where the noise just ruined the vibe.
  2. Remove the storage pod, and remove the roof Carrier AirV 15000 btu.  This is a power hog. 1500 watts with 3000 watt startup.  See Next.
  3. Add a Mr. Cool 12000 btu 22 SEER mini split.  The interior will go across the back, above the window, the exterior unit will go where the spare
    tire is currently.
  4. Add 400 or 600Ah BattleBorn LiFePO4 batteries, with appropriate inverter/charger/monitor/isolator.  Put this in the Onan space.
  5. Add flexible solar directly attached to the roof for aesthetic purposes.  Not sure yet how much.

Ok, now you can talk me out of it.  Or not and wait for the videos.

--
Mike, GMCing since 2002
77 Palm Beach, 260, 403
Dublin, OH

http://teamteets.com/gmc/

I was just reminded that it has been 11 years since I did the YouTube video series on upholstery of my Palm Beach and it has been 4 years since we used our coach much. All my batteries are toast. The Onan would need a new muffler/pipe and some maintenance. All this and my electrical systems are still circa 1977 design. Seems like a good reason to dig into a big project. Don't try to talk me out of it! Here's the plan: 1) Remove Onan the Giant. After combining two into one and getting it a relatively dependable unit, it just never seemed to fit the places we went. State and federal parks where the noise just ruined the vibe. 2) Remove the storage pod, and remove the roof Carrier AirV 15000 btu. This is a power hog. 1500 watts with 3000 watt startup. See Next. 3) Add a Mr. Cool 12000 btu 22 SEER mini split. The interior will go across the back, above the window, the exterior unit will go where the spare tire is currently. 4) Add 400 or 600Ah BattleBorn LiFePO4 batteries, with appropriate inverter/charger/monitor/isolator. Put this in the Onan space. 5) Add flexible solar directly attached to the roof for aesthetic purposes. Not sure yet how much. Ok, now you can talk me out of it. Or not and wait for the videos. -- Mike, GMCing since 2002 77 Palm Beach, 260, 403 Dublin, OH http://teamteets.com/gmc/
CS
Carl Stouffer
Sun, Apr 3, 2022 4:05 AM

I recently converted my house batteries to two Battle Born BBGC2 batteries (200 AH).  They are EXPENSIVE, but hopefully worth the cost.  Time will
tell.  I used a BIM 225 to control the charge from the alternator.  It connects the house batteries to the charging system for 15 minutes, then
disconnects it for 20 minutes.  This might be counterproductive when I am running my 3-way fridge on 12 volts while driving, but hasn't caused any
kind of problem at this point.  It might have been better to have spent the extra $$$ for a battery to battery charger to regulate the charge.

One caution I hear over and over on the flexible solar panels is that they don't have a way to dissipate the heat and don't last long.  I suspect some
are better than others, so be aware of that.  Global Solar used to have good panels, but they have apparently gone out of business, unfortunately.

Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging.  GMCSJ and GMCMI member

I recently converted my house batteries to two Battle Born BBGC2 batteries (200 AH). They are EXPENSIVE, but hopefully worth the cost. Time will tell. I used a BIM 225 to control the charge from the alternator. It connects the house batteries to the charging system for 15 minutes, then disconnects it for 20 minutes. This might be counterproductive when I am running my 3-way fridge on 12 volts while driving, but hasn't caused any kind of problem at this point. It might have been better to have spent the extra $$$ for a battery to battery charger to regulate the charge. One caution I hear over and over on the flexible solar panels is that they don't have a way to dissipate the heat and don't last long. I suspect some are better than others, so be aware of that. Global Solar used to have good panels, but they have apparently gone out of business, unfortunately. -- Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
6
6cuda6@gmail.com
Sun, Apr 10, 2022 2:14 PM

I like your ideas Mike but your talking a pretty hefty investment in batteries and solar gear [4 to 6k for batteries alone]....you might be able to
get away with half the batteries for the general use you need and a small portable quiet generator for the cloudy or rain days as a back up or to
charge your batteries. [providing you dont plan on running AC on batteries]

I find it interesting that everyone wants to go solar/batteries [me as well] but we tend to forget that not everyday is a sunny one and must have a
plan for when that happens.

Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

I like your ideas Mike but your talking a pretty hefty investment in batteries and solar gear [4 to 6k for batteries alone]....you might be able to get away with half the batteries for the general use you need and a small portable quiet generator for the cloudy or rain days as a back up or to charge your batteries. [providing you dont plan on running AC on batteries] I find it interesting that everyone wants to go solar/batteries [me as well] but we tend to forget that not everyday is a sunny one and must have a plan for when that happens. -- Rich Mondor, Brockville, ON 77 Hughes 2600
BH
Bruce Hislop
Mon, Apr 11, 2022 12:29 PM

Mike
I've used Samlex products for years in my business and had next to no issues with them.  In my coach I use an EVO series
charger/inverter/auto-transfer.  They have them in 12, 24 & 48V models and 1200-4,200 watts.  The inverter is synced to the 60Hz line so when the grid
power is pulled, your AC equipment is transferred to in-sync phase inverter voltage.  This is important for your AC compressor motors.  When the Grid
power comes back, the inverter re-syncs to the grid power so it can transfer back to grid in phase.

They have a programmable charging system so you can start with lead-acid and then change to LiFePO4 batteries in the future.

https://samlexamerica.com/product-category/inverter-chargers/

Rich,
Here is a source in Canada where I got my LiFePO4 batteries last year (two 100Ahr).  Like everything else they have increased in price.  Over the
winter they kept their voltage within less than 0.1V. So far so good at less than 1/2 the Battleborn price.  They generally sell out before their next
shipment. Website says they expect the next shipment April 29.

They also have a heated battery for ~$100 more if you expect to charge the battery when it's below 0C

https://www.ablithium.ca/products#!/Pre-orders/c/94002008

--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

Mike I've used Samlex products for years in my business and had next to no issues with them. In my coach I use an EVO series charger/inverter/auto-transfer. They have them in 12, 24 & 48V models and 1200-4,200 watts. The inverter is synced to the 60Hz line so when the grid power is pulled, your AC equipment is transferred to in-sync phase inverter voltage. This is important for your AC compressor motors. When the Grid power comes back, the inverter re-syncs to the grid power so it can transfer back to grid in phase. They have a programmable charging system so you can start with lead-acid and then change to LiFePO4 batteries in the future. https://samlexamerica.com/product-category/inverter-chargers/ Rich, Here is a source in Canada where I got my LiFePO4 batteries last year (two 100Ahr). Like everything else they have increased in price. Over the winter they kept their voltage within less than 0.1V. So far so good at less than 1/2 the Battleborn price. They generally sell out before their next shipment. Website says they expect the next shipment April 29. They also have a heated battery for ~$100 more if you expect to charge the battery when it's below 0C https://www.ablithium.ca/products#!/Pre-orders/c/94002008 -- Bruce Hislop ON Canada 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001 My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
KB
Ken Burton
Mon, Apr 11, 2022 5:37 PM

Let me reinforce how important getting  multi power sources Commercial or stand alone inverters is. First if you drop power on one before engaging the
other, EVERYTHING down stream is affected.  So there is a period of time, no matter how small, that the those items are without power.  To prevent
this there is a period of time, no mater how small when both power sources MUST be in perfect SYNC  We are talking fractions of a cycle here.

I use to work in a motor room where we generated our own 60 cycle 3 phase AC.  We had two huge mechanical frequency converters.  Our primary input
power was 25 cycle and our output was 60 cycle.  We ran on only one at a time and every week we switched over to the other.  On the shut down one we
climbed inside the motor about 8 or 9 foot tall and a generator of similar size to clean and check each one for the next week of run time.  The two
units were were connected together by a drive shaft about 14 to 15 inches thick.  The units were mounted in concrete at least 12 inches thick.

One week on change over the operator instead of having the units in perfect sync, he had them some unknown amount out of sync.  In the amount switched
over time when both were online at the same time (seconds) he destroyed both units.  He tore both out of the concrete floor and twisted the large 14"
drive shafts.  We stored spares in a warehouse somewhere and sent flat rail car to get them.  It still took about 5 days working 24 hours per day to
get everything replaced and repaired.  All of this was caused by a few seconds of an out of sync condition before the primary breakers shut
everything down.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

Let me reinforce how important getting multi power sources Commercial or stand alone inverters is. First if you drop power on one before engaging the other, EVERYTHING down stream is affected. So there is a period of time, no matter how small, that the those items are without power. To prevent this there is a period of time, no mater how small when both power sources MUST be in perfect SYNC We are talking fractions of a cycle here. I use to work in a motor room where we generated our own 60 cycle 3 phase AC. We had two huge mechanical frequency converters. Our primary input power was 25 cycle and our output was 60 cycle. We ran on only one at a time and every week we switched over to the other. On the shut down one we climbed inside the motor about 8 or 9 foot tall and a generator of similar size to clean and check each one for the next week of run time. The two units were were connected together by a drive shaft about 14 to 15 inches thick. The units were mounted in concrete at least 12 inches thick. One week on change over the operator instead of having the units in perfect sync, he had them some unknown amount out of sync. In the amount switched over time when both were online at the same time (seconds) he destroyed both units. He tore both out of the concrete floor and twisted the large 14" drive shafts. We stored spares in a warehouse somewhere and sent flat rail car to get them. It still took about 5 days working 24 hours per day to get everything replaced and repaired. All of this was caused by a few seconds of an out of sync condition before the primary breakers shut everything down. -- Ken Burton - N9KB 76 Palm Beach Hebron, Indiana
JH
James Hupy
Mon, Apr 11, 2022 6:01 PM

Used to know a guy that worked for Bonneville Power on the Columbia River.
They had several turbines powered by falling water, in the powerhouse. They
all had to be synced in phase as they added or removed turbines in response
to changing demands for power. He said that when the dams were first
constructed that the phase shifting was done manually. But technology
progressed and much of those tasks are computer controlled. The Nuclear
power plants all have similar issues along with managing the reactors. They
are tricky buggers to shut down.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 10:37 AM Ken Burton n9cv@comcast.net wrote:

Let me reinforce how important getting  multi power sources Commercial or
stand alone inverters is. First if you drop power on one before engaging the
other, EVERYTHING down stream is affected.  So there is a period of time,
no matter how small, that the those items are without power.  To prevent
this there is a period of time, no mater how small when both power sources
MUST be in perfect SYNC  We are talking fractions of a cycle here.

I use to work in a motor room where we generated our own 60 cycle 3 phase
AC.  We had two huge mechanical frequency converters.  Our primary input
power was 25 cycle and our output was 60 cycle.  We ran on only one at a
time and every week we switched over to the other.  On the shut down one we
climbed inside the motor about 8 or 9 foot tall and a generator of similar
size to clean and check each one for the next week of run time.  The two
units were were connected together by a drive shaft about 14 to 15 inches
thick.  The units were mounted in concrete at least 12 inches thick.

One week on change over the operator instead of having the units in
perfect sync, he had them some unknown amount out of sync.  In the amount
switched
over time when both were online at the same time (seconds) he destroyed
both units.  He tore both out of the concrete floor and twisted the large
14"
drive shafts.  We stored spares in a warehouse somewhere and sent flat
rail car to get them.  It still took about 5 days working 24 hours per day
to
get everything replaced and repaired.  All of this was caused by a few
seconds of an out of sync condition before the primary breakers shut
everything down.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana


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Used to know a guy that worked for Bonneville Power on the Columbia River. They had several turbines powered by falling water, in the powerhouse. They all had to be synced in phase as they added or removed turbines in response to changing demands for power. He said that when the dams were first constructed that the phase shifting was done manually. But technology progressed and much of those tasks are computer controlled. The Nuclear power plants all have similar issues along with managing the reactors. They are tricky buggers to shut down. Jim Hupy Salem, Oregon On Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 10:37 AM Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote: > Let me reinforce how important getting multi power sources Commercial or > stand alone inverters is. First if you drop power on one before engaging the > other, EVERYTHING down stream is affected. So there is a period of time, > no matter how small, that the those items are without power. To prevent > this there is a period of time, no mater how small when both power sources > MUST be in perfect SYNC We are talking fractions of a cycle here. > > I use to work in a motor room where we generated our own 60 cycle 3 phase > AC. We had two huge mechanical frequency converters. Our primary input > power was 25 cycle and our output was 60 cycle. We ran on only one at a > time and every week we switched over to the other. On the shut down one we > climbed inside the motor about 8 or 9 foot tall and a generator of similar > size to clean and check each one for the next week of run time. The two > units were were connected together by a drive shaft about 14 to 15 inches > thick. The units were mounted in concrete at least 12 inches thick. > > One week on change over the operator instead of having the units in > perfect sync, he had them some unknown amount out of sync. In the amount > switched > over time when both were online at the same time (seconds) he destroyed > both units. He tore both out of the concrete floor and twisted the large > 14" > drive shafts. We stored spares in a warehouse somewhere and sent flat > rail car to get them. It still took about 5 days working 24 hours per day > to > get everything replaced and repaired. All of this was caused by a few > seconds of an out of sync condition before the primary breakers shut > everything down. > -- > Ken Burton - N9KB > 76 Palm Beach > Hebron, Indiana > _______________________________________________ > GMCnet mailing list > Unsubscribe or Change List Options: >
6
6cuda6@gmail.com
Mon, Apr 11, 2022 8:04 PM

RF_Burns wrote on Mon, 11 April 2022 08:29

Mike
I've used Samlex products for years in my business and had next to no issues with them.  In my coach I use an EVO series
charger/inverter/auto-transfer.  They have them in 12, 24 & 48V models and 1200-4,200 watts.  The inverter is synced to the 60Hz line so when the
grid power is pulled, your AC equipment is transferred to in-sync phase inverter voltage.  This is important for your AC compressor motors.  When
the Grid power comes back, the inverter re-syncs to the grid power so it can transfer back to grid in phase.

They have a programmable charging system so you can start with lead-acid and then change to LiFePO4 batteries in the future.

https://samlexamerica.com/product-category/inverter-chargers/

Rich,
Here is a source in Canada where I got my LiFePO4 batteries last year (two 100Ahr).  Like everything else they have increased in price.  Over the
winter they kept their voltage within less than 0.1V. So far so good at less than 1/2 the Battleborn price.  They generally sell out before their
next shipment. Website says they expect the next shipment April 29.

They also have a heated battery for ~$100 more if you expect to charge the battery when it's below 0C

https://www.ablithium.ca/products#!/Pre-orders/c/94002008

Thanks Bruce...been watching their site and a few others....prices are still floating around 5$ an aH for batteries....after working with electric
buses for the past 4 years i'm not sure i'm ready to drop 1200 or so on a couple batteries....i think the price will be better once the Gov forces
everyone over to electric everything.

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

RF_Burns wrote on Mon, 11 April 2022 08:29 > Mike > I've used Samlex products for years in my business and had next to no issues with them. In my coach I use an EVO series > charger/inverter/auto-transfer. They have them in 12, 24 & 48V models and 1200-4,200 watts. The inverter is synced to the 60Hz line so when the > grid power is pulled, your AC equipment is transferred to in-sync phase inverter voltage. This is important for your AC compressor motors. When > the Grid power comes back, the inverter re-syncs to the grid power so it can transfer back to grid in phase. > > They have a programmable charging system so you can start with lead-acid and then change to LiFePO4 batteries in the future. > > https://samlexamerica.com/product-category/inverter-chargers/ > > > Rich, > Here is a source in Canada where I got my LiFePO4 batteries last year (two 100Ahr). Like everything else they have increased in price. Over the > winter they kept their voltage within less than 0.1V. So far so good at less than 1/2 the Battleborn price. They generally sell out before their > next shipment. Website says they expect the next shipment April 29. > > They also have a heated battery for ~$100 more if you expect to charge the battery when it's below 0C > > https://www.ablithium.ca/products#!/Pre-orders/c/94002008 Thanks Bruce...been watching their site and a few others....prices are still floating around 5$ an aH for batteries....after working with electric buses for the past 4 years i'm not sure i'm ready to drop 1200 or so on a couple batteries....i think the price will be better once the Gov forces everyone over to electric everything. -- Rich Mondor, Brockville, ON 77 Hughes 2600
DK
Dave King
Tue, Apr 12, 2022 2:49 PM

Ken B. those were some BIG units. I guess computer control can make it some much simpler to-day.
We had a motor generator at IBM Toronto Manufacturing because we used to build stuff for WTC (World Trade Corporation.)
Toronto was noraml 120 V 60 HZ. Using different motor generators we could make  "voltage" and HZ for anything
we were building, like 220 V 50 HZ etc. some stations on the assembly lines had lots of plugs for different countries.

DAVE KING

--
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Ken B. those were some BIG units. I guess computer control can make it some much simpler to-day. We had a motor generator at IBM Toronto Manufacturing because we used to build stuff for WTC (World Trade Corporation.) Toronto was noraml 120 V 60 HZ. Using different motor generators we could make "voltage" and HZ for anything we were building, like 220 V 50 HZ etc. some stations on the assembly lines had lots of plugs for different countries. DAVE KING -- DAVE KING lurker, wannabe Toronto, Ontario, Canada