gmclist@list.gmcnet.org

GMC Motorhome Discussion List

View all threads

Re: 76 Birch air conditioning - I'm going in

ES
Emery Stora
Sat, Jul 17, 2021 3:42 PM

James
I still have to disagree with you on this.
If you go to www.duracool.com in their technical facts area you will find the statement “compatible with mineral and synthetic oils including PAG and ester oils”.
I am very familiar with PAG and I have been installing Duracool in GMC Motorhome for many years including conversions to R134a and have had no problems with Duracool and PAG oil.

Not sure when you had GM training school but I don’t think Duracool was around way back then.

Emery Stora

On Jul 17, 2021, at 9:09 AM, James Hupy jamesh1296@gmail.com wrote:
The one oil that both refrigerants ARE compatible with is called POE,
which is Polyol Ester Oil.
If, when the R-134a was introduced into Dave's GMC that oil was used, then
HC-12a can be added to replace R-134a with no ill effects. Just Sayin, that
is a big IF.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:56 AM James Hupy jamesh1296@gmail.com wrote:

Au Contraire' Emery.
R-12 lube is mineral based.
R-134a lube is not mineral oil, but is something called PAG which is a
synthetic lube. According to the Rules and Laws, R-134a and R-12 cannot be
mixed, that goes for HC-12a  or "duracool" as well. Emery, you can do as
you wish, but those are the facts as I learned them from GM Training
School. Still have the books. I went and looked them up. Just what I was
taught.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:05 AM Emery Stora via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

James
Duracool is compatible with the oil used with R12 and also compatible
with the oil used with R134a.
If the system was properly converted for R134a then Duracool can be
installed without changing anything.
Emery STORA
77 Kingsley
Frederick CO

On Jul 17, 2021, at 7:49 AM, James Hupy jamesh1296@gmail.com wrote:
If you have R-134a, and it was professionally installed, they used an
oil
specifically compatible with that refrigerant. It will NOT BE compatible
with either R-12 or Duracool type refrigerants.  The system must be
pumped
down, the dessicant/dryer replaced, and thoroughly flushed of all that
old
lubricant. If you have an OEM compressor, it should be drained and
flushed,
and new lube filled. If you don't flush and replace the lube, be
prepared
for a system full of sludge.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 5:17 AM dave silva admin@oldrv.net wrote:
This coach was restored in 2013 and then sat for seven years. I've been
slowly recommissioning it.
The AC worked.  Now it doesn't.  Apparently a very slow leak.  It has
no
pressure but it holds vacuum.
It had been converted to R134.  I have a case of duracool.
So what do i need to know besides adding duracool and crossing fingers
?

Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76  Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.

James I still have to disagree with you on this. If you go to www.duracool.com in their technical facts area you will find the statement “compatible with mineral and synthetic oils including PAG and ester oils”. I am very familiar with PAG and I have been installing Duracool in GMC Motorhome for many years including conversions to R134a and have had no problems with Duracool and PAG oil. Not sure when you had GM training school but I don’t think Duracool was around way back then. Emery Stora > On Jul 17, 2021, at 9:09 AM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote: > The one oil that both refrigerants ARE compatible with is called POE, > which is Polyol Ester Oil. > If, when the R-134a was introduced into Dave's GMC that oil was used, then > HC-12a can be added to replace R-134a with no ill effects. Just Sayin, that > is a big IF. > Jim Hupy > Salem, Oregon > > On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:56 AM James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Au Contraire' Emery. >> R-12 lube is mineral based. >> R-134a lube is not mineral oil, but is something called PAG which is a >> synthetic lube. According to the Rules and Laws, R-134a and R-12 cannot be >> mixed, that goes for HC-12a or "duracool" as well. Emery, you can do as >> you wish, but those are the facts as I learned them from GM Training >> School. Still have the books. I went and looked them up. Just what I was >> taught. >> Jim Hupy >> Salem, Oregon >> >> On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:05 AM Emery Stora via Gmclist < >> gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote: >> >>> James >>> Duracool is compatible with the oil used with R12 and also compatible >>> with the oil used with R134a. >>> If the system was properly converted for R134a then Duracool can be >>> installed without changing anything. >>> Emery STORA >>> 77 Kingsley >>> Frederick CO >>>> On Jul 17, 2021, at 7:49 AM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> If you have R-134a, and it was professionally installed, they used an >>> oil >>>> specifically compatible with that refrigerant. It will NOT BE compatible >>>> with either R-12 or Duracool type refrigerants. The system must be >>> pumped >>>> down, the dessicant/dryer replaced, and thoroughly flushed of all that >>> old >>>> lubricant. If you have an OEM compressor, it should be drained and >>> flushed, >>>> and new lube filled. If you don't flush and replace the lube, be >>> prepared >>>> for a system full of sludge. >>>> Jim Hupy >>>> Salem, Oregon >>>>> On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 5:17 AM dave silva <admin@oldrv.net> wrote: >>>>> This coach was restored in 2013 and then sat for seven years. I've been >>>>> slowly recommissioning it. >>>>> The AC worked. Now it doesn't. Apparently a very slow leak. It has >>> no >>>>> pressure but it holds vacuum. >>>>> It had been converted to R134. I have a case of duracool. >>>>> So what do i need to know besides adding duracool and crossing fingers >>> ? >>>>> -- >>>>> Dave & Ellen Silva >>>>> Hertford, NC >>>>> 76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff >>>>> Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021 >>>>> It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
JH
James Hupy
Sat, Jul 17, 2021 4:14 PM

You are correct, in that I am not too well read on HC-12a. The last time I
attended GM Training School was 1985 or so. HC-12a was verboten in the USA
at that time. Still might be in certified AC shops, which I was.  Don't
know if propane based refrigerants are compatible with synthetic
oils except as I already stated. That's all I know about that.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 8:43 AM Emery Stora via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

James
I still have to disagree with you on this.
If you go to www.duracool.com in their technical facts area you will find
the statement “compatible with mineral and synthetic oils including PAG and
ester oils”.
I am very familiar with PAG and I have been installing Duracool in GMC
Motorhome for many years including conversions to R134a and have had no
problems with Duracool and PAG oil.

Not sure when you had GM training school but I don’t think Duracool was
around way back then.

Emery Stora

On Jul 17, 2021, at 9:09 AM, James Hupy jamesh1296@gmail.com wrote:
The one oil that both refrigerants ARE compatible with is called POE,
which is Polyol Ester Oil.
If, when the R-134a was introduced into Dave's GMC that oil was used,

then

HC-12a can be added to replace R-134a with no ill effects. Just Sayin,

that

is a big IF.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:56 AM James Hupy jamesh1296@gmail.com wrote:

Au Contraire' Emery.
R-12 lube is mineral based.
R-134a lube is not mineral oil, but is something called PAG which is a
synthetic lube. According to the Rules and Laws, R-134a and R-12 cannot

be

mixed, that goes for HC-12a  or "duracool" as well. Emery, you can do as
you wish, but those are the facts as I learned them from GM Training
School. Still have the books. I went and looked them up. Just what I was
taught.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:05 AM Emery Stora via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

James
Duracool is compatible with the oil used with R12 and also compatible
with the oil used with R134a.
If the system was properly converted for R134a then Duracool can be
installed without changing anything.
Emery STORA
77 Kingsley
Frederick CO

On Jul 17, 2021, at 7:49 AM, James Hupy jamesh1296@gmail.com wrote:
If you have R-134a, and it was professionally installed, they used an

oil

specifically compatible with that refrigerant. It will NOT BE

compatible

with either R-12 or Duracool type refrigerants.  The system must be

pumped

down, the dessicant/dryer replaced, and thoroughly flushed of all that

old

lubricant. If you have an OEM compressor, it should be drained and

flushed,

and new lube filled. If you don't flush and replace the lube, be

prepared

for a system full of sludge.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 5:17 AM dave silva admin@oldrv.net wrote:
This coach was restored in 2013 and then sat for seven years. I've

been

slowly recommissioning it.
The AC worked.  Now it doesn't.  Apparently a very slow leak.  It has

no

pressure but it holds vacuum.
It had been converted to R134.  I have a case of duracool.
So what do i need to know besides adding duracool and crossing

fingers

?

--
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76  Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.


GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:

You are correct, in that I am not too well read on HC-12a. The last time I attended GM Training School was 1985 or so. HC-12a was verboten in the USA at that time. Still might be in certified AC shops, which I was. Don't know if propane based refrigerants are compatible with synthetic oils except as I already stated. That's all I know about that. Jim Hupy Salem, Oregon On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 8:43 AM Emery Stora via Gmclist < gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote: > James > I still have to disagree with you on this. > If you go to www.duracool.com in their technical facts area you will find > the statement “compatible with mineral and synthetic oils including PAG and > ester oils”. > I am very familiar with PAG and I have been installing Duracool in GMC > Motorhome for many years including conversions to R134a and have had no > problems with Duracool and PAG oil. > > Not sure when you had GM training school but I don’t think Duracool was > around way back then. > > > Emery Stora > > > On Jul 17, 2021, at 9:09 AM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote: > > The one oil that both refrigerants ARE compatible with is called POE, > > which is Polyol Ester Oil. > > If, when the R-134a was introduced into Dave's GMC that oil was used, > then > > HC-12a can be added to replace R-134a with no ill effects. Just Sayin, > that > > is a big IF. > > Jim Hupy > > Salem, Oregon > > > > On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:56 AM James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Au Contraire' Emery. > >> R-12 lube is mineral based. > >> R-134a lube is not mineral oil, but is something called PAG which is a > >> synthetic lube. According to the Rules and Laws, R-134a and R-12 cannot > be > >> mixed, that goes for HC-12a or "duracool" as well. Emery, you can do as > >> you wish, but those are the facts as I learned them from GM Training > >> School. Still have the books. I went and looked them up. Just what I was > >> taught. > >> Jim Hupy > >> Salem, Oregon > >> > >> On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 7:05 AM Emery Stora via Gmclist < > >> gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote: > >> > >>> James > >>> Duracool is compatible with the oil used with R12 and also compatible > >>> with the oil used with R134a. > >>> If the system was properly converted for R134a then Duracool can be > >>> installed without changing anything. > >>> Emery STORA > >>> 77 Kingsley > >>> Frederick CO > >>>> On Jul 17, 2021, at 7:49 AM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> If you have R-134a, and it was professionally installed, they used an > >>> oil > >>>> specifically compatible with that refrigerant. It will NOT BE > compatible > >>>> with either R-12 or Duracool type refrigerants. The system must be > >>> pumped > >>>> down, the dessicant/dryer replaced, and thoroughly flushed of all that > >>> old > >>>> lubricant. If you have an OEM compressor, it should be drained and > >>> flushed, > >>>> and new lube filled. If you don't flush and replace the lube, be > >>> prepared > >>>> for a system full of sludge. > >>>> Jim Hupy > >>>> Salem, Oregon > >>>>> On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, 5:17 AM dave silva <admin@oldrv.net> wrote: > >>>>> This coach was restored in 2013 and then sat for seven years. I've > been > >>>>> slowly recommissioning it. > >>>>> The AC worked. Now it doesn't. Apparently a very slow leak. It has > >>> no > >>>>> pressure but it holds vacuum. > >>>>> It had been converted to R134. I have a case of duracool. > >>>>> So what do i need to know besides adding duracool and crossing > fingers > >>> ? > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Dave & Ellen Silva > >>>>> Hertford, NC > >>>>> 76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff > >>>>> Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021 > >>>>> It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right. > _______________________________________________ > GMCnet mailing list > Unsubscribe or Change List Options: >
RK
roy keen
Sat, Jul 17, 2021 5:05 PM

I have to go with Emery on this .25 years ago I converted a hundred ton commercial system from r12 to 134. I replaced gallons of mineral oil with
ester oil. Generally you could add duracool to an r12 or 134 system to top it off but it isn’t legal a tech could loose their license doing this not
to mention a fine.

Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook

I have to go with Emery on this .25 years ago I converted a hundred ton commercial system from r12 to 134. I replaced gallons of mineral oil with ester oil. Generally you could add duracool to an r12 or 134 system to top it off but it isn’t legal a tech could loose their license doing this not to mention a fine. -- Roy Keen Minden,NV 76 X Glenbrook
DS
dave silva
Sat, Jul 17, 2021 10:36 PM

So have we reached a consensus?

I did replace R134 with Duracool in a Ford Expedition and it worked great for several years.

But apart from the dispute over the refrigerant,  are there any other steps to resurrecting this system, assuming it is intact?

--
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC

76  Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff

Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021

It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.

So have we reached a consensus? I did replace R134 with Duracool in a Ford Expedition and it worked great for several years. But apart from the dispute over the refrigerant, are there any other steps to resurrecting this system, assuming it is intact? -- Dave & Ellen Silva Hertford, NC 76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021 It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.